@mixxx

js.ns talk propsal.
Feedback welcome


Embracing Subjectivity

Abstract

Cast central authorities aside and take a tour of a inter-net conceived subjectively.
Learn about the challenges and benefits of not having singlular sources of truth, and take a tour of the Scuttleverse - an actively growing decent community (of code and humans).


Description

Cast central authorities aside and take a tour of a web conceived subjectively.
Learn about the challenges and benefits of not having singlular sources of truth, and take a tour of the Scuttleverse - an actively growing de-cent community (of code and humans).

We'll discuss questions like:

  • identity - how do I know who's who without someone coordinating usernames?
  • ownership - who owns the data, where does it live?
  • the past/ offline - wait, is this mostly just like meat space?
  • more...

We'll check out the current state of a subjective net called the Scuttleverse, and some of the apps growing there:

SSB-viz

An interactive view of your local slice of Scuttleverse

graph-viz.png

Patchwork

A social network where messages flow along friendship lines out to 2 degrees of seperation.
Names are subjective and can be set by users, or assigned by friends, or both.

patchwork.png

Git-ssb

A fully decentralise git + gihtub-like interface.
Uses the same database as Patchwork.
Choose your friends wisely - currently friendship === write-priveledge

git-ssb-repo.png

Ferment

A P2P SoundCloud built on scuttlebut + webtorrent.

ferment.png

@Toady
Re: %uYUTrSomS

Very nice! I think @keks gave more of a stand-up version of this recently.

@Bob
Re: %uYUTrSomS

since you bring up meat space, it might be intersting to talk about cyperspace

@ev
Re: %uYUTrSomS

my only feedback is to suggest demoing a newer client, as I understand it Patchwork is un-maintained.

@mixxx
Re: %uYUTrSomS

yeah good call. I'm weighing up people ability to install and get online with classic versus modern.
But given it's a JS conf maybe I should demo harder mode. Before that I need to try out what a fresh onboarding looks/ feels like in %patchbay

@mixxx
Re: %uYUTrSomS

@cryptix by stand-up do you mean comedy?
Would love to see the script for that one.

@null_radix what's cypherspace to you? (If feel like it's the autonomy / ownership for me ?)

@Toady
Re: %uYUTrSomS

do you mean comedy?

oh, haha.. no, sorry. i meant stand-up as in more improv than comedy.

@kek 🐸
Re: %uYUTrSomS

stand-up as in more improv

That was not improv!

We (that is @lotterleben and me) were doing a presentation for uni. It was a small course. First @lotterleben explained some non-digital concepts about how society influences technology and the other way around, borrowing a lot from Franklin's The Real World of Technology. Then there was a group work in which we asked the participants to discuss the values, norms and assumptions that impacted a given technology and how it might impact socienty. We used Unicode, autonomous vehicles, using google translate to translate from a gender-unspecific language to a gender-specific one and crime prediction/risk-assesment software.
Afterwards I basically gave a Telekommunist 101 lecture and wanted to do a lite-client demo afterwards but noone told me that --modern invites only work once, even when you put a number behind.

@cryptix told me how to work around that but now its too late. I don't think anyone would have stayed on here anyway...

@tha_flowmaster
Re: %uYUTrSomS

@mixmix - I'm not disagreeing or criticizing, just curious why you focused on subjectivity as the big thing of the scuttleverse.

@Toady
Re: %uYUTrSomS

Oh wow.. sorry.. my memory got fuzzy, I guess. I think I confused two storries. thanks for clearing it up.

@gb
Re: %uYUTrSomS

@bobhaugen I interpret 'Embracing Subjectivity' as 'Hugging Questions' -- does that help?

@mixmix I'd give the private messages some privacy by not publicizing them to a group during a conference (re: slide 2 which currently includes scrot of pms)

@keks there's an invite generator built into %sdash you can check out

@Bob
Re: %uYUTrSomS

@mixmix

what's cypherspace to you? (If feel like it's the autonomy / ownership for me ?)

cypherspace is the space created by crytography. Its phyics can make certain propieties conducive (such as human autonomy) although not nessicary.

The intersting question to me is, what are the differncies between this space and others if any? What will the differnces enable/lead to

@tha_flowmaster
Re: %uYUTrSomS

@gb

I interpret 'Embracing Subjectivity' as 'Hugging Questions' -- does that help?

I think I know what @mixmix (and you) mean by those phrases. My question is more like: why is that the main (presumably most important?) feature of the scuttleverse that Mix chose to highlight?

@Dominic_temp
Re: %uYUTrSomS

Embracing Subjectivity also means shifting from designing systems where there is always a single source of truth (say, who is what username?) to one where things can mean different things to different people.

This is against the grain of most tech, but is along the grain of everyday life.

@tha_flowmaster
Re: %uYUTrSomS

Thanks. Just thinking about a set of related projects and what they emphasize and what else goes along for the ride.

A lot of scuttlers seem ot emphasize decentralization or privacy/anonymity.

Shifting from single sources of truth is also a principle of the semantic web projects. As is redecentralization.

And owning your own data is also a principle of the indie web.

The scuttleverse seems relatively uninterested in semantics. Indie web is, but has their own lighter-weight flavor than e.g. RDF.

Those are semi-disorganized ramblings. Will try to do better sometime soon.

@mixxx
Re: %uYUTrSomS

I think @current_dominic expressed my thought clearly.

@bobhaugen it's not necessarily the most important topic to share about the Scuttleverse, but I have an intuition that it's an interesting angle.
My desire is for us collectively to try many angles and publish / present them and see what sticks.
I also have a penchant for against-the-grain, and the realisation that you've been coding autocratic systems, and that code could reflect my everyday messy social interactions is kinda delighful.

@keks do you have a record of and of your talks (including Telekommunist101)?

@mixxx
Re: %uYUTrSomS

@ahdinosaur pointed out this 2015 ssb issue by @dtarr :

A data structure is subjective if different agents within a system may have an partially overlapping view of it, each agent has a different view of it, and that is okay.

So you could call ssb, and the way we are doing naming to be subjective data structures....

@tha_flowmaster
Re: %uYUTrSomS

it's not necessarily the most important topic to share about the Scuttleverse, but I have an intuition that it's an interesting angle.

I agree.

A data structure is subjective if different agents within a system may have an partially overlapping view of it, each agent has a different view of it, and that is okay.

Another accompanying angle to me is the protocol for coming to agreement on something enuf that you can cooperate/collaborate/do something about it. Doesn't seem to exist in the scuttleverse yet. Or does it? Maybe in git-ssb?

@kek 🐸
Re: %uYUTrSomS

I have slides with notes attached, but they are in German...real-world-technology.pdf

@kek 🐸
Re: %uYUTrSomS

Also I think there is many angles to Telekommunist thought and this is just one.

@tha_flowmaster
Re: %uYUTrSomS

Forked to %FrCybyG...

@mixxx
Re: %uYUTrSomS

I don't read German, but appreciate the references.
Also, the diagrams are great !

teh gossip

@tha_flowmaster
Re: %uYUTrSomS

Reading excerpts from The Real World of Technology

@mixxx
Re: %uYUTrSomS

Poorly constructed arguments / stub notes.
Rough thoughts I had while doing manual labour today

Identity

What is it really ?
We might have got quite used to carrying ID, using our email address as a login, or building servers with usernames.

While these identifiers are quite centralised still some distribution of the work of identity in this :

  • facebook trusts that gmail is reliable enough that email auth works
  • OAuth / single-sign-on is about 3rd parties confirming other identities
  • my power company trusts my bank statements as confirmation of id / address

So people with skin in the game of affirming identity (e.g. when there's money present) are useful and probably going to be useful sources of affirmation of identity.

But there are more people with skin in the game than those in monetary relationships - e.g. friends / family / colleagues. Any of these these can have skin in the game in there will be a negative social impact for false confirmations of id.

Strength of confirmation of id is probably proportional to the amount of damage that can be done. Whether @dominic_temp temp was really a @dominic doesn't have that high stakes when we're just doing conversation. I would probably want to do more checks on that character if he w as asking for money.

Reputation

This is one of those rat-traps of a problem that I've seen tempt several entrepeneurs. Forcing people to change their behaviour to gather and signal reputation just doesn't work.
Well it doesn't when there's one person trying to form a single view.
When we go subjective, the problem is a lot easier - I have particular ways I value connections around me, and they're a reflection of the reputation I perceive. Friends of mine can leverage this, and /or are welcome to interpret how they see fit.

Views / filters

ideas around how currently databases and views are welded, but explore what happens when they're not.
Feels more like a dscourse, like how there are many different history books on the same events.