@ev dug The ultimate ideal is that each side runs *one* command and the new user en
@ev
Re: %9jNoEmstw

@tohl Yes, http downloads don't seem to work reliably.

I'm not sure if that's an issue with git-ssb-web or scuttlebot though.

Reliable http git downloads off git-ssb would help us get closer to eliminating github from our workflow.

@ev
Re: %9jNoEmstw

I dunno. Why don't we get off everything now?

You know I want to get off everything now, and I think we're getting there.

Right now %scuttlebot and its' clients are a solid replacement for centralized social networks, for me. I can communicate with people using a distributed gossip network, and as a result I do not find myself falling back to centralized social networks.

For example, I heard someone at Sudoroom say 'Just delete your F* and get on ssb!' with a lot of enthusiasm on Wednesday.

FB [Deleted], TW [Deleted]

git-ssb, and it's clients, are close to being a complete replacement for centralized git hosting solutions. We have git repository pages, git clone links, and are able to track and resolve issues. Right now I'd suggest that people try logging out of Github for awhile, and try focusing on developing using only git-ssb. I do this often.

There is one outstanding issue that needs to be resolved before I can delete my Github forever:

  1. I need to be able to reliably clone scuttlebot off of git-ssb if I'm not on ssb.

Then there are the 'nice to have' issues such as a better issue tracking interface in an ssb client.

Github [not deleted]

So let's assume the http interface to git-ssb works over the Internet reliably. In the future, I can clone scuttlebot, before I'm on scuttlebot.

Now how do I install the npm modules without npm or yarn? This is where I'm currently stuck, and why we need to continue to discuss How to build a distributed package manager?.

npm [not deleted]

@ev

How to build a distributed package manager?

Last night at Sudoroom JavaScript night, a discussion erupted about how best to build a distributed package manager.

I think there's an underlying sense of frustration with Node's package manager. We want to do it better, but how?

git-ssb works, but how do we leverage this into a package manager for ssb? How can we self-bootstrap ssb installs off of ssb?

I'm not sure I know the answer to this, but I think it'd be a good discussion to revisit. It's been awhile since #lifewithoutnpm

How do we build a distributed packager manager that we can use to host packages that we use to build ssb?

@ev dug Avocados sprout pretty readily in my compost bin, I often find them coming
@ev dug today pigeons ate all my seedlings on the roof, grrrrh, I want to eat sqaub
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Re: %9jNoEmstw
sbot plugins.install patchfoo --from 'http://localhost:8989/blobs/get/&dApdvzRSHIz5nujAQqltUIV2KUwAScp1G+1PW9soBXg=.sha256'

works for me!

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev
Re: %9jNoEmstw

@cel Ok, this makes sense.

I think what we could use is a roadmap for un-depending on centralized services. We want to be completely self-sufficient.

How do we get off what when?

Then we can be on the same page about what centralized technologies we are using to bootstrap our decentralized services, and which ones we are not.

For example, I think it's achievable to get completely off Github right now and delete our accounts. There are a few outstanding issues with this, but they can be resolved.

However, I think we're farther away from having a distributed package manager, right?

@ev dug I would like to not create any new modules on npmjs.com, to incentivize mys
@ev
Re: %s3d8pC1gl

Wasn't this the original idea behind Patchbay? It was supposed to be modular, so we could easily add new post types.

@dominic if you want to take a stab at how you want these modular post types to be organized using either a fork of patchbay@6 or minbase, I say go for it. I'll either use your version or merge into minbase.

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Re: %9jNoEmstw

@noffle yes. sbot plugins.install patchfoo fails right now, because it's not on npm.

@ev
Re: %9jNoEmstw

I just thought of a reason why this idea of mine is a bad idea: if Patchfoo auto-starts on pubs, that'll give people a way to post to the pub key without any authentication.

@ev

Shipping Patchfoo with Scuttlebot?

I've seen a lot of ssb on-boards over the past few days. There are a number of ways people get started, one of them is by typing sudo npm install -g scuttlebot. This only installs the command line server.

I wonder if it might be cool to ship the lightest client with Scuttlebot so people have a client option right away?

This would require putting Patchoo on npm though. How do you feel about that @cel?

@ev dug ![senthil-ev.jpg](&+iLf+1vxMKx5sjQDmYndbHMHWE77Y4jf4EdbcjHr0FQ=.sha256)
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@ev dug Hello, world.
@ev dug hacking with [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) [
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Ok, I think I'm synced up. ssb-ebt made the sync go faster.

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@ev
Re: %hjaxoweXU

@arj Interested people!

Earlier this afternoon I demoed %minbase, %patchfoo and showed a screenshot of %patchwork to some programmers at Sudoroom who weren't on ssb yet. We didn't quite get to the on-board process, but I think they are interested in trying it out soon.

@ev
Re: %zxa7hMoPu

Kind of slow, but it works.

@ev
Re: %YiYV4yNsm

^ Glitch or feature?

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@ev

@dominic What do we need to do to get %epidemic-broadcast-trees into scuttlebot master?

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug We re-repaired the hose, packed and decamped; watering Twinkle Van Sparkle
@ev dug > Essential to their operation is they sanctify your poop. This is a very
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@ev
Re: %exld1UciO

@happy0 This is the talk:

Colouring with crayons and playing with Duplo blocks - Node Dublin 2012

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Re: %hjaxoweXU

@mixmix I demoed %minbase, scuttlebot (on the command line), and %git-ssb-web today.

People were rocking %patchwork to %patchfoo at Sudoroom on Thursday!

I'm telling everyone that there are a number of clients built on ssb so far. %minbase is the one I'm most confident with, because it's the one I use daily and maintain.

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@ev dug ## how to poop on a boat I sometimes describe living on a boat as trading
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@ev

dolores2.jpg

San Francisco/Oakland update

Last night @gb and I went to JavaScript night at Sudoroom, where we met @noffle @kemitchell @nichoth @juul @nanomonkey and a few other folks who hang out there that aren't on ssb (yet?).

We were pretty tired and smelly from the previous 24 hours in transit out of Fayettenam, and none of our housing leads were panning out, so we're both grateful to be able to stay with a fellow programmer for last night and tonight.

We continue to look for more temporary and/or permanent housing whether in SF, Oakland, or any of the surrounding cities.

Tonight we caught a class at Yoga to the People, as we didn't make it yesterday.

One of the things that's really struck me is how quiet San Francisco is. Even right now at 9pm on a Friday night, there doesn't seem to be very many people out. Where did they all go?

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@ev
Re: %85PxkjFmr

@noffle Ok, we're headed to sudoroom for JavaScript night. cc @nanomonkey @nichoth and @mafintosh

Thanks for the offer to stow some of our stuff!

@ev
Re: %KkkE4Pyvs

After the sbot demo in Dolores Park:

dolores.jpg

@ev dug You're welcome to store a few things under our bed here in Oakland.
@ev

I'm posting a message from Dolores Park in San Francisco with Alton.

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@ev
Re: %cunFwTIGN

@noffle Thanks!

@gb and I are headed to The Mission right now to get a coffee, and then go to a yoga class at Yoga to the People.

We're still a up in the air about where we're staying, despite a bit of reaching out. Turns out there's a housing a housing crisis! But we knew that going in.

Would anyone in the area be up for letting us stow our non-essentials bag and @dominic's Mexican blanket until we're a little more figured out? We can come to you!

@ev dug Enjoy your adventure!
@ev dug Yes! So many people to round up: - @kemitchell - @nanomonkey - @noffle - @
@ev dug There are so many people that I'd like to meet in person. When is the next
@ev dug @ev Yeah, I'm in Oakland. Hit me up when y'all are in town.
@ev

@gb and I have landed at SFO!

california.jpg

@ev
Re: %+SXx88bu4

@noffle San Francisco. You're in the area, right?

@ev in #travel

The last day

lastday.jpg

Tonight we're having a giving away party. @gb's Duh skateshop chair is going. The plants are going.

We're all packed down to 1.5 bags, three Mexican blankets (one is for @dominic), and two yoga mats.

Tomorrow we move out of the Value Place, which has been a good home for the past two months.

lastday2.JPG

@ev dug and my real name is james
@ev dug Found objects in Forest: ![typewriter.JPG](&XyDBB8IHyL+4xvnztAd2J03VnruDuY
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@ev dug # Calvinball!!! # ![Calvinball.png](&qmyVXMjkZAmWanu1824e4IP7CKtHZXPAs3x9xi
@ev dug Despite the hype, I don't see a lot of dog fooding happening on IPFS. Why c
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@ev dug This was my office on Thursday. ![P8031056.JPG](&WGCFTEYA5TLggTv+MTtWQTdd
@ev
Re: %dii5RjWZg

@customdesigned Yes, you should be running ssb-ws at port 8989. To generate a modern invite, use sbot invite.create --modern.

You'll get this:

ws://yourserver.com:8989~shs:8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=:F2HgvfPR3t0uYXSZJUOGVA6SMO98OIsdltC60ogRJVo=

Next, you'll need to put that into the url of where minbase is hosted. So:

http://ssb.yoursite.com/#ws://yourserver.com:8989~shs:8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=:F2HgvfPR3t0uYXSZJUOGVA6SMO98OIsdltC60ogRJVo=

That's a one-click invite similar to what I have up at http://evbogue.com:1337/invite/

Minbase does most of this for you, but I'm explaining the process. If you want to host lite clients on your website, you just gotta make sure to configure your host properly and point everything at the right places.

The serve.js file that hosts the lite client at port 3013 is just a static website to host the lite client, it doesn't do anything else. You'll have sbot running at 8008, ssb-ws running at 8989, and maybe serve.js running at 3013. But you can also host the lite client anyway you want using any static hosting software you want.

@ev dug Update: spaceship Twinkle Van Sparkle revived...
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@ev
Re: %dii5RjWZg

The README says to run sbot with --allowPrivate. What does that do?

sbot will throw an error if you're trying to generate an invite on a machine without a public ip address. because the lite client works on your local, this bypasses the error and generates a localhost invite if you're not on a vps.

@ev
Re: %dii5RjWZg

@customdesigned If they're both connected to the same sbot instance, there's no way you'll fork your key. If the sbot instances are on different machines, then you need to worry about it.

Why does minbay seem to work when I'm not running the thing that listens on 3013 as talked about in README.md ?

the lite client contains the entire application in an html file, so it runs without serve.js which is just a ecstatic server to quickly host the lite client and give you lite client invites on the command line.

@ev
Re: %dii5RjWZg

For example, I use my 8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc= key on my local with itself as a remote ws://localhost:8989~shs:8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.

@ev
Re: %dii5RjWZg

@customdesigned You can move your ~/.ssb/secret key into the browser and use the same remote. The import/export is in the Key tab.

You can get the remote manually with sbot ws.getAddress.

The lite client can't read your computer's hard drive (I think this is a good thing!) so it can't detect the key that you already have.

I don't know what a private invite is? Feel free to explain where you're seeing that part of the application.

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@ev dug # Solar Eclipse continental USA August 21st 2017! There is gonna be a sola
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@ev dug ![geckos-bowl.jpg](&/ZftHgKx1jzinyGILXQYl6tMkt9Ky6Uj54Trca5Qe0Y=.sha256)
@ev dug #Transformations# Over time all of the caterpillars began to disappear. I
@ev
Re: %Z5FafHWbC

Oh man, the tragedy of cars. Sucks.

@ev
Re: %qM46tYJxd

@gb I ran a pacman -Syu this morning, and the latest kernel update fixed the trackpad issue for me.

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@ev
Re: %TbDjOST0j

@alanz I had trouble opening that link too, I think decodeURI() doesn't work on it for some reason.

Try: %f6No+0g...