@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %uSjWB59Sp

hey @Zach! this could also be a useful thread : %zinbhbK...

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %33WoKJtQO

not really, you can just look at the /public thread and see EVERYTHING though...

having a /channels page to manage some of that stuff would be rad though

@Zach! in #n00bquestions
Re: %33WoKJtQO

I really like how simple and light 'bay is; and it's interesting to see all the git messages now. The one thing I miss compared to Patchwork is the Channels list on the side. I see that I can put a # into the search bar to bring up my subscribed channels, but I can't see a list of any channel with recent activity. I like that section in Patchwork cos it acts as a kind of discovery to see what people are talking about that I wouldn't even think to type in (like #anarchitecture or #spider-island).

Is there a way to see a list of channels that had recent activity within Patchbay, that I'm just not figuring out?

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %Btm6wH5RS

that would be awesome, thanks @Zach!.

If you have any feedback, would love to hear. Make sure you check out the subtle blue menu dot in the top right to see some of the plugins installed by default. I'm working on speeding up the /gatherings page at the moment - it's a little slow to load, but easy to fix.

@Emile subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Zach! in #n00bquestions
Re: %Btm6wH5RS

I am writing this now from Patchbay, having successfully installed it without losing my diary or anythang. I just followed all the instructions on github topdown. I can run Patchwork or Patchbay now, and that is really cool!

thank you y'all. I think i'll condense this down to a new FAQ of "Can I switch ssb-clients safely? How?"

@Zach! in #n00bquestions
Re: %Btm6wH5RS

Good point, @gb! I was referring to the readme on patchbay's github page: https://github.com/ssbc/patchbay

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %Btm6wH5RS

@Zach! good question there are a couple of things broken since recent changes in sbot.
You need to run your own scuttlebot (this is covered in the instructions) but you currently need to run the ssb-private branch till this or another solution is merged.

You're not at risk of creating a new diary. Just don't run Patchwork at the same time (I don't think it's dangerous, but the sbots will collide)

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %uSjWB59Sp

I don't know if this is something that's been done. It's been talked about as being viable though.

You try moving a copy of your whole ~/.ssb folder onto your usb key, then symlinking it into place when you arrive at a computer. This is probably inelegant, but should work. Depending on which client you're running you can also set up an ENV variable when you start sbot to tell it what your identity is named

e.g.

ssb_appname=ssb-usb sbot server


and this will go looking for your ssb settings, key, db in ~/.ssb-usb

@gb in #n00bquestions
Re: %Btm6wH5RS

@zach! can you send a link to the instructions you're reading? That'll be a big help to those of us reading your request.

@Zach! in #n00bquestions

What is the best process for moving an existing SSB diary onto a USB key? Say that you want to be on Scuttlebutt on multiple computers, but don't want to have multiple identities. Rather, you just plug in your cool-ass USB key and are good to go. Is there a known best process for how to tell Patchwork where to find your SSB diary?

(by diary I mea the append-only log, yr personal scuttling and such)

@Zach! in #n00bquestions

If someone wanted to move from using Patchwork to Patchbay, but has not yet installed patchbay, is there anything about the installation they need to be careful of? The concern would be following all the steps without question on the patchbay readme, and accidentally creating a new diary. Is this a moot concern though?

@MrFinch in #n00bquestions

New hashtags in messages create new channels? Will these new channels be synced?

@MrFinch in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR

Thank you very much for your effort. Is it possible to use the image syntax ![](image-url)?

@MrFinch in #n00bquestions

Is there a list of possible markdown for patchwork?

@MrFinch in #n00bquestions

I did install the patchwork AppImage. If I want to play around with scuttlebot in bash or with javascript, its better not to have installed scuttlebot (standalone) and patchwork AppImage at the same time?

@MrFinch subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@DrWhax subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@graham subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@angelo subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@jayaura in #n00bquestions

Whats the difference between Friends, Following and Followers ? My guessing is that if two people mutually follow each other, they should be friends. Is that so ?

@黑客 in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR

patchwork forces you to confirm your message before you actually send, so you can just try whatever you think might work and see if it actually works without actually publishing.

@黑客 in #n00bquestions
Re: %uJdTv8z0I

I use 'client'. i use 'peer/node' to mean sbot.

@Kas in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

Plus, unrendered markdown is still very legible. Unrendered HTML is not.

@Kas in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

You can attach a picture directly from within Patchwork by choosing the picture from the filesystem. Patchwork will create a markdown link for you.

@Kas in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

Which client are you using?

@Kas in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

So do I. About the only thing I miss in markdown is a way to make definition lists.

@Kas in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

You use markdown.

@黑客 in #n00bquestions
Re: %4j/FjkKQo

So far yep, although I think people have been talking about adding it. %zlMq6sb...

@黑客 in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

Also with patchbay you can connect straight to (some) pubs from your browser (or phone) to get a web-only version of the scuttleverse but this is still pretty experimental

Oh nice. I've been pondering how I can get my ssb fix on my phone. Hopefully someone will make a react-native app that talks to an sbot over https

@黑客 in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

ah so it's like an app framework rather than an actual app. has anyone made any cool apps as patchbay forks?

@黑客 in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

Why do people use patchbay? is there a cool feature or something? I don't mean to hate on it, it just feels unusable to me.

@millette in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

@grammolan What's left is an actual standard markup, not a flavour of the month markdown.

With html, you can collaborate with the indieweb gang and have microformats and other goodies.

@millette in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

@mitar, I'm agreeing with you. I'd prefer html to markdown as a content format, but I'd be okay with having html as a bonus. You brought up js and css, not me :-)

@millette in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

I agree that html emails are the worst.

Although html won't replace markdown here, I hope it can still be used as a content format. As you said, for security reasons, clients might wish not to display or render it at all.

@millette in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

lynx, w3m, etc. can all render html too. Markdown is great, until you ask what flavour? Even github had a problem recently (with user-contributed wikis and readmes) when they tweaked their markup.

Using html would allow all sorts of interoperability.

@Helder in #n00bquestions
Re: %mhQ6Nn4eG

That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying their different goals.

@Helder in #n00bquestions
Re: %mhQ6Nn4eG

hi @dinosaur! thanks a lot for taking the time to answer. great explanation and references. i think i have a better view of things now.

it's wonderful how the philosophy of nonconsensus and nonuniformity map onto the ssb architecture.

i see how this is very distinct from the ethereum blockchain. as for whisper itself i don't know enough about its architecture to understand how it compares. i assume that even without recording messages on the blockchain it probably does have some kind of uniformity or "conceptual scarcity". hope to learn more along the way.

thank you again for the kind answer!

@ezdiy in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

@millette Using html would be a security nightmare and would make posts illegible for anything but browser engines.

I'm speaking from experience of someone who regularly has to open email in a web browser, because even links -dump is far from enough half the time.

@ezdiy in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

@mixmix If your intention is to render everything to plaintext, you don't need to use html. you can use plaintext.

Look, this html thingy happened before - with email. Now you need a web browser engine half of the time to even read email.

@ezdiy in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

why not html

Because it would create hard dependency on web browsers. A potato can render markdown. One can't render modern html on a potato.

@mitar in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

@Dominic I think I am at the moment more brainstorming how that could best integrate with the ecosystem. So I think rich-text editors are great for end-users. Now, how do we store their results. As markdown? As HTML? I do not know, but am exploring. For example, one question. Is this currently a standard that everything is a markdown? Or just clients expect that? Is there some MIME type or something associated with posts? Then we could have HTML and Markdown and clients could show for unsupported MIME something like "cannot display unsupported MIME type, download post instead" or something.

@mitar in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

The question I have is: do you really want that the serialization format is markdown and not HTML? From the link above it seems you are suggesting that we should have content editor -> HTML -> markdown and then store markdown?

@mitar in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

I think I said:

You do not need to render JavaScript or CSS with HTML.

:-)

@mitar in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

What? You do not need to render JavaScript or CSS with HTML. Do not complicate here. It is just a markup language for rich-text.

Markdown can also include arbitrary HTML so you have to sanitize anyway. You cannot just render Markdown as it is. Using non-HTML markdown languages because you think they are more secure is just a lazy reason because you didn't make proper sanitization in the first place.

I made an example for this in the past. For example, see this page and imagine that the first input field is a rich-text editor. Where is here security issue? It works, it is standard, it can be rendered directly, and you can use existing rich-text editors to make it easy for users to use it. Oh, not to mention that they can copy-paste in their Word or Google Doc content and it just works.

@mitar in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

What? HTML to plain text is a solved problem. If you can render markdown to plain text, you can also render HTML.

@mitar in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

What? The protocol is using markdown to serialize? Why not HTML?

@mitar in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

:-(

Opened an issue for that: https://github.com/ssbc/patchwork/issues/524

@mitar in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

Markdown? This is not really user friendly. I opened an issue: https://github.com/ssbc/patchwork/issues/523

@mitar in #n00bquestions

Can posts be rich-text? (Bold, links, etc.) How does one do that?

@mitar in #n00bquestions

Is there a way to open things in tabs in Patchwork?

@mitar subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@tom subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@brln in #n00bquestions
Re: %rBE3R//sx

I asked a similar question yesterday and got a response: %K7meKzo...

@brln in #n00bquestions
Re: %K7meKzo1Q

Apparently I can't timeline. Change the second date to "9 months ago".

@brln in #n00bquestions

I have a thought experiment that might help me understand how this all works. Imagine I have my laptop, and one year ago I downloaded patchwork and got it all running and read through some posts. I followed a couple people and some channels. And then I disappeared for six months, until I stumbled on a wifi network in the woods, which was not connected to the internet at large, but had one computer on it which someone had conveniently set up with scuttlebutt 3 months ago. Would my client sync and receive those three months worth of data? Does it matter if me and the account on the network were following the same people/channels? Do both computers have to have some particular ports open to be able to sync like that? Is a pub required for any of this? And then what would the process be if I wanted to have someone mail me a USB key with the most recent copy some of the data on the network, so I could update the network in the woods so the next poor traveler could sync their system?

@brln subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Olavi Haapala in #n00bquestions

Is there no way to boost/share/repost someone's status? Like/reply are the only options available?

@noom subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@lateral in #n00bquestions
Re: %AG/crWQJg

Oh, ok. Thanks for the answer and link!

I'll eagerly await a solution, and maybe read about fractal identities meanwhile… SSB might have a slightly steeper learning curve than some other social networks, but it more than makes up for it in interesting content and introducing me to new ideas!

@lateral subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@lateral in #n00bquestions

Hi

To use the same identity on several computers, can I simply copy the secret file (or whole .ssb directory)?

@Abbey subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@gmarcos87 in #n00bquestions

Hello, has patchwork thought to add private channels or groups? What would be the challenge of doing it?

@ppiixx subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@ninjaSmurf subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@ninjaSmurf in #n00bquestions

Greetings.
How do I install applications?
I have the link for one: ssb://%hNm67sfnZFtWkD/+1qxH3UfzhXykfpKtOL1C/XbLANA=.sha256.
When I paste it in the bar on the top right, it says loading for a long time.

@sam in #n00bquestions
Re: %7/4TK5bih

to be honest I'm more of a specialized Bean Artist, but I'll see what I can do

@sam in #n00bquestions
Re: %7/4TK5bih

well, scuttlebutt is meant to be about subjective interpretation rather than canonical truths, right? Though I suppose it would be worthwhile if the icon emphasized what is obviously the true-est meaning. cabbage.html

@sam in #n00bquestions

hello, I have two questions (one of which I'm will find out as soon as I post this):

1. can I embed SVG in my posts?
2. what is this? a leaf? a snail? some kind of hermit crab? a giant hungry cabbage, swallowing a small person wearing long gumboots?
@sam subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@InfiniteMind subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@jeremy in #n00bquestions
Re: %Fw6BZvHc2

Figured it out. Apparently my initial follow didn't stick. I hadn't set a profile name/avatar yet in patchwork before I hit "follow". I wonder if that has something to do with it. Oh well, seems to be syncing now!

@jeremy in #n00bquestions
Re: %Fw6BZvHc2

and the plot thickens further. Running sbot server by itself:

connect { host: '192.168.0.164',
port: 8008,
key: '@IdvTere3tmpoFINIgQV/Sj83PcKC/MVlUOa4NJthuEE=.ed25519',
source: 'local',
announcers: 1,
duration: { mean: 0, stdev: 0, count: 2, sum: 0, sqsum: 0 },
stateChange: 1492690201831,
state: undefined,
client: false,
disconnect: [Function],
failure: 2 }

@jeremy in #n00bquestions
Re: %Fw6BZvHc2

Hmm. Just noticed this in my patchwork console log as well:

base.html:19 NotFoundError: Key not found in database at /Applications/Patchwork.app/Contents/Resources/app.asar/node_modules/level-sublevel/shell.js:101:18 at /Applications/Patchwork.app/Contents/Resources/app.asar/node_modules/level-sublevel/nut.js:121:19

@jeremy in #n00bquestions

Using patchwork, I set up a new identity on a secondary machine on my LAN, and the new identity immediately saw my main one in the "Local" section, as expected. So I followed my main identity from my new one in hopes that it would pull in my foaf data, but it seems to have not done anything. I can see my main account's diary, but nothing else. Is there something that needs to be done to trigger a sync between the machines? Or do I just need to keep waiting?

@jeremy in #n00bquestions
Re: %nr4oskXXp

I would transfer everything. The ~/.ssb/db/ folder contains a copy of your log as well, so you'd have to be 100% positive that your feed was downloaded from the network to your new machine completely before you made any new posts, or boom you fork. Just move the folder. It'll save potential headaches.

@jeremy in #n00bquestions
Re: %grj55XZxF

It's sorted by recent activity, favoring subscribed channels first.

@jeremy subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@nanomonkey in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR

The above yields:

Emphasis, aka italics, with asterisks or underscores.

Strong emphasis, aka bold, with asterisks or underscores.

Combined emphasis with asterisks and underscores.

Strikethrough uses two tildes. Scratch this.

1. First ordered list item
2. Another item
• Unordered sub-list.
3. Actual numbers don't matter, just that it's a number
1. Ordered sub-list
4. And another item.

Some text that should be aligned with the above item.

• Unordered list can use asterisks
• Or minuses
• Or pluses

I'm an inline-style link

I'm a reference-style link

You can use numbers for reference-style link definitions

Or leave it empty and use the link text itself

URLs and URLs in angle brackets will automatically get turned into links.
http://www.example.com or http://www.example.com and sometimes
example.com (but not on Github, for example).

Some text to show that the reference links can follow later.

@nanomonkey in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR
***
Emphasis, aka italics, with *asterisks* or _underscores_.

Strong emphasis, aka bold, with **asterisks** or __underscores__.

Combined emphasis with **asterisks and _underscores_**.

Strikethrough uses two tildes. ~~Scratch this.~~

1. First ordered list item
2. Another item
* Unordered sub-list.
1. Actual numbers don't matter, just that it's a number
1. Ordered sub-list
4. And another item.

Some text that should be aligned with the above item.

* Unordered list can use asterisks
- Or minuses
+ Or pluses

[I'm a reference-style link][Arbitrary case-insensitive reference text]

[You can use numbers for reference-style link definitions][1]

Or leave it empty and use the [link text itself]

URLs and URLs in angle brackets will automatically get turned into links.
http://www.example.com or <http://www.example.com> and sometimes
example.com (but not on Github, for example).

Some text to show that the reference links can follow later.

[arbitrary case-insensitive reference text]: https://www.mozilla.org
[1]: http://slashdot.org
[link text itself]: http://www.reddit.com

@millette subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@CrowderSoup in #n00bquestions
Re: %UkEqPiAZi

I would LOVE to see bookmarking built on top of SSB. Something like Delicious (or Pinboard) where you can have public and private links.

@indutny in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

@Dominic very limited, but https://github.com/mathjax/MathJax could work for the math ;) Perhaps, this is a feature request for Patchwork, though.

@indutny in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

May I humbly ask for LaTeX? :D

@Wao in #n00bquestions
Re: %mhQ6Nn4eG

Thanks for summary! Today I'm making presentation of ScuttleBot in Progressbar and I'll refer to your short SSB introduction to speed-up things. Just few folks coming, but for now enough for me to explain many things around SSB.

@Wao in #n00bquestions

How to you save interesting threads? Like bookmarks. I find there some of you already asked that, but no solution yet. Maybe create own channel #bookmarks or send it privately?

@Zajo in #n00bquestions
Re: %/A6iNdjlB

Oh and I didn't respond to your question.

How do you create a channel?

Channel isn't something that can be created or destroyed. It's only a tag on your message which can later be used to filter messages.

If you're yousing Patchwork, you can

1. Search for "#desiredChannel" and press Enter (you may see here some messages depending on whether your friends yse the channel an also depending on the pub and channel you chose)
2. Write and publish your message.

That's it.

@Zajo in #n00bquestions
Re: %/A6iNdjlB

Have you found the answer? I'm currently considering disconnecting from a pub, but I didn't find any way to do that.

@Ds in #n00bquestions
Re: %rk9WqLNlS

Thank you very much for the explanation :)

@Ds in #n00bquestions

Does it worth it to be subscribed to more than one Pub server ?
Are all the Pub servers synced with each other?

@Ds subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Helder in #n00bquestions

What is the difference between Whisper (Ethereum) and Secure Scuttlebut? #scuttlebutt #ethereum

@Helder in #n00bquestions
Re: %rBE3R//sx

nice! thanks for the heads up. great to see there are more competent people thinking about ssb + sneakernets :)

@Helder in #n00bquestions
Re: %rBE3R//sx

Cross-posted to HN in case other people are asking themselves the same thing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14145131

@Helder in #n00bquestions

What is the easiest way to do #sneakernet-style syncing between Patchwork/SSB instances that are completely offline? Like with USB sticks.

@Helder subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Zach! in #n00bquestions
Re: %SK9Pl40Cs

I may be wrong, but I believe Patchwork works with more definite, packaged releases and when one is ready you'd be notified in the app and then linked to the downloads page in github here: https://github.com/ssbc/patchwork/releases

@Zach! in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR

@mixmix oh! For some reason, I didn't see this mention, but I agree! I added a new page to the ssb-handbook/faq. It is under applications.
(and the FAQ is merged into the main ssb-handbook now!)

@Zach! subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@jonathan in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR

It doesn't seem to be documented yet. @cel
recently described it as github-like

@jonathan subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@jonathan in #n00bquestions
Re: %6MWpvcHTb

Heh, I just came to #n00bquestions to ask the same thing. Really want to save for future reference some of the discussions I've seen (e.g. on how to link identity across devices).

It'd be great if the Patchwork interface supported bookmarks. A quick workaround I've decided to try for now is to send myself a private message with the post link and a short title / summary.

@aomatofu in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

I like Markdown too. I wonder if we could have a tool-tip like popup to inform newcomers, and remind old-timers, of Markdown syntax. Not a link to a website, but an actual in-app cheat sheet.

@aomatofu subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Cam Johnson subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@kaffie subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@黑客 subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Nina in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

Here's my lunch photo. Easy peasy :)

@Nina in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

Omg, yes, I'm blind... That's what I miss in Gitter actually. In Patchwork is fixed :D lol

@Nina in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

Patchwork

@Nina in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

The only thing I dislike with Markdown is that it's a hassle to attach a photo...

@Nina in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

I like Markdown.

@Aljoscha in #n00bquestions
Re: %a99UCsZqg

So scuttlebot is an implementation of the ssb protocol?

@Aljoscha in #n00bquestions

Could anyone clarify the meaning of the following tems and their relation? Also, is this terminology deliberate, or historical cruft?

Secure-scuttlebutt vs scuttlebutt vs scuttlebot vs sbot?

@Aljoscha in #n00bquestions
Re: %7/4TK5bih

It's the giant hungry cabbage, swallowing a small person wearing long gumboots. But the logo could use some work, you are one of the very few people who correctly recognized it. Most people see it as a hermit crab, so that has become the canonical interpretation.

@Alanna in #n00bquestions

Are the channels in any particular order? I put in # and see what appears to be a random list. Date of creation maybe? Recent activity?

@Alanna subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Mischa subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@juul subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@andrestaltz in #n00bquestions
Re: %UkEqPiAZi

In patchwork, right click on a post, then "copy message id"

@winmix in #n00bquestions
Re: %rk9WqLNlS

many of the pubs sync each other.
note that it's all built on follows. Using an invite to a pub makes you follow the pub (and the people it follows) and the makes it follow you. Following = intention to replicate that persons data where-ever you find it (you find that data via other people via gossip).

following more pubs = finding out about more people
getting more pubs to follow you = more always-online nodes that for-sure replicate your messages

@grammolan in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

What? You do not need to render JavaScript or CSS with HTML. Do not complicate here.

So when leaving those out, what's left from html vs markdown? You can have lists and tables with markdown as well.

Markdown can also include arbitrary HTML so you have to sanitize anyway.

On a text-only client, there is no html engine. Everything will come out as raw text. So you can just output the markdown text unsanitized. And markdown is quite readable in source form.

@grammolan in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

@mitar In the meantime patchwork-classic has been deprecated but still offers a very usable browser interface. (I also stick to that for now.)

@grammolan in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

In order to be backward compatible protocol-wise, we probably want something which still outputs markdown. E.g. use stackedit or react-rte.

@grammolan in #n00bquestions
Re: %GrcF0kxwx

There is also a newer attempt. See %b6nlgiA...

@Helena subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Helena in #n00bquestions

Hey, is there a way that I can see all channels listed somewhere or at least the channels that I subscribed to? I'm on the patchwork (next?) desktop app for mac. I remember my previous version had them listed on the side which was quite handy at times. (I do love the added back-arrow button though!)

@cellular in #n00bquestions
Re: %3kUA6eSpU

hashtags link to channels but do not add to them currently.
syncing is irrespective of channels.

@cellular in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR

more classic markdown features:

original markdown syntax reference: https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax

github-flavored markdown features:

• tables
• emoji

ssb markdown features:

• ssb ids (blob ids, msg ids, feed ids) are automatically linkified and abbreviated with '...'
• links to channels ( #tags ) are linkified in recent ssb-markdown
• @feed links where the name is mapped to a feed id in a post's mentions array (can be composed in patchwork-classic or patchfoo)
@cellular in #n00bquestions
Re: %BTDMUmRcx

patchwork runs a scuttlebot instance, which you can connect to from the command-line using the sbot command (from the scuttlebot npm package) or
in javascript using the ssb-client or ssb-party npm modules.

@Mikey in #n00bquestions
Re: %JKXFkBgVQ

hey @gmarcos87, yes! here are some relevant links:

@Mikey in #n00bquestions
Re: %SK9Pl40Cs

@serapath what you did should work, that's what i'd recommend. are you using ssbc/patchwork not mmckegg/patchwork-next?

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR

@MrFinch yes, but not with http urls, but it works with blobs. If you attach an image it will insert that.

http image urls are not inserted because it would be a potential privacy violation, used to track who looks at a post, etc.

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %uJdTv8z0I

client seems to be sticky, maybe "interface" would be more accurate, though.

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

Markdown is the defacto standard. SSB only has defacto standards.
a spec is just documentation, what we need is test cases. I've been moving towards implementing reusable test suites where possible, but that hasn't happened in the front end yet.

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

@mitar what do you really want? a WYSIWYG editor, or html format messages? It seems like there is a lot of support in this thread for markdown, that said, no one can stop you posting messages as HTML, because ultimately it's up to the clients to choose how to render those. Though, to be safe, it would be wise to limit to a safe subset of html... probably the same feature set provided by markdown.

@indutny if there was a decent javascript LaTeX that wasn't just the C compiled to javascript and incredibly slow. Then I'd write LaTeXdOwN ;)

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

@mitar it looks like what you really want is not to have to write markdown source. I think we can all get what we want, what about this: https://domchristie.github.io/to-markdown/

Probably outputing some html tags will work already, but you'd have to look at the current markdown libraries. I've dabbled enough with content-editable and such like to know how complicated it can be... If someone was really motivated to setup a solid WYSIWYG we'd merge, I am sure!

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

@Kodo patchbay is kind of like the vim of ssb. it's a more ruthlessly simple design, where what you see is closer to the underlying database. It's definitely a good place to get started playing around with making stuff. patchwork@3 is pretty much just patchbay with a different top level layout.

@Mikey in #n00bquestions
Re: %mhQ6Nn4eG

hey @hsribei, i'll give this a try, taken from a scuttlebutt.nz and a series of tweets i wrote on this:

tl;dr instead of objectivity, singletons, and consensus, SSB embraces subjectivity, social networks, and local trust

the first difference is that SSB embraces subjective meaning.

with SSB, each user has their own append-only log of messages (blockchain). %RqH7UzD...

each message contains:

• a signature
• the signing public key
• a content-hash of the previous message
• a sequence number
• a timestamp
• an identifier of the hashing algorithm in use (currently only "sha256" is supported)
• a content object

an example message (me liking your post above).

{
"previous": "%ZXvDbmbsy5/YuSpVZZUjsGXLot5xQcCvyIt2ESbdRpo=.sha256",
"author": "@6ilZq3kN0F+dXFHAPjAwMm87JEb/VdB+LC9eIMW3sa0=.ed25519",
"sequence": 3213,
"timestamp": 1492825337284,
"hash": "sha256",
"content": {
"type": "vote",
"channel": "n00bquestions",
"vote": {
"value": 1,
"expression": "Dig"
}
},
}


while Patchwork interprets this message by adding a green +1 to your message, there's actually no objective way to interpret this message. for example, there are some differences between how Patchwork and Patchbay interpret about messages, which are how you name yourself or name others.

Each peer can publish whatever they want, and interpret another message however they want. The meaning is created when two peers have the same interpretation. You don't get to choose how someone interprets you, but you may choose how you interpret them.

@mix gave a great talk recently on this: "Embracing Subjectivity.

the second difference is that SSB has no singletons.

"singleton": a single thing for the whole world: a single ledger (bitcoin), a single computer (ethereum), a single file system (ipfs), etc.

the problem with singletons is that a distributed "single thing for the world" means the technical architecture doesn't match the social or conceptual architecture: %lmELhGV...

since feeds are append-only, gossip is simple: request all messages in the feed that are newer than the latest message you know about. Scuttlebot maintains a table of known peers, which it cycles through, asking for updates for all followed feeds and their followers' feeds.

this way, you only connect to peers you have a relationship with, and share messages from people you care about. you can store whatever data as you want, but it doesn't mean the whole world will host it for you, just your social network. %s8ISugQ..., %Cd6YRAR..., %0asWjhF..., %Ooe/psw...

this is great in addressing the spam problem, since nobody can "cold call" you without having a mutual friend. also address sybil attacks %1S7PrZm..., %oDcN+0d...

the third main difference is that SSB embraces local trust.

to participate in a discussion with my mate, do i really need to download all discussions and participate in a world-wide consensus process? %W1dULML...

even worse, what if my internet has limited connection, or i'm on Mars and have 20 minutes of latency? consistency has a local limit. %7hcvpIT... #against-consensus

anyways, hope that helps.

Re: %sHFN/qwdR

image syntax works but only for ssb blobs. This so you can't inject external tracking pixels into posts and what not.

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %mhQ6Nn4eG

Oh sorry I ment to respond to this before - the Whisper @hsribei is talking about isn't ethereum itself, but a side protocol, that is related to ethereum in that it's funded by a ethereum research grant, and probably makes use of some network infrastructure. I met it's developer last year, he explained it to me and it sounded quite elegant. If I recall correctly, it was a messaging protocol that broadcast globally, and hid both the sender and the receiver. If the network got congested, i think peers preferentially transported messages that had more proof of work attached.

I couldn't find a good document to reference but there is this: https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Whisper

ssb isn't really a messaging protocol, it's a database replication protocol that you can put messages in. I think this means there are more things you can build on top of ssb.

Since Whisper broadcasts every message to the entire network, scalability is a problem, but that allows it to have both sender and receiver anonymity. ssb supports private messages, but you know that the sender created a message, but not the contents unless you are an intended receipient. This also scales badly, since you need to attempt to decrypt every private message, however, ssb is intended not to replicate the entire network, but just your local portion of it (friends + some friends of friends). This has the side effect that strangers cannot message you unless they are already associated with your social circle, but I consider this a feature. (It's relatively few users that actually need to receive unsolicited messages, and that could be accomplished via pubs and something like an invite code)

So, it's difficult to compare whisper and ssb because they are trying to achive quite different things.

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %Fw6BZvHc2

this is weird, it must be quirk about how the follow graph is generated or traversed

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %6MWpvcHTb

oh btw, notice that channel subscriptions create public messages, maybe bookmark messages could be posts to a channel that just embed other messages?

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %6MWpvcHTb

I most want public bookmarks, because I want to tag the important discussions and have that be something people can refer to for learning about ssb, or how to set up solar, or good bean recipies

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR

I think it would be good for there to be an onboard help area for each client/ interface as well

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %sHFN/qwdR

Would be cool for this to make it to the FAQ cc @Zach! (sorry I've been caught in work, please tell me if there's anything to progress things. Shall we merge into the main book?)

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

unfollow

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

markdown works fine. there are so many more important things to do that build wisywigs

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

@donkeyscience @Kodo there's an underlying value we're investing in which is - ecosystems over monolithic / killer-app.

Specifically, after dominic made the first patchbay, and matt forked it and built patchwork (the new one) based on similar patterns, we noted there might be different types of users with different needs. We decided it would be great for the ecosystem for Matt and I to hone two differenct but similar apps - it would force us to enable the flexibility to have different opinions, while saving energy by collaborating on extracted common chunks. Patchcore was born of this. Patchbay is trending towards a framework which is stand-alone / requireable, and can be easily over-ridden and extended to add functionality for things like git, events, or music.

Check out main.js in patchbay to get a sense of what's possible !

// const git = require('patch-git')
const horcrux = require('ssb-horcrux')
const patchbay = require('./')
const patchcore = require('patchcore')

// from more specialized to more general
const sockets = combine(
// git,
horcrux,
patchbay,
patchcore
)

const api = entry(sockets, nest('app.html.app', 'first'))

const app = api.app.html.app()
document.body.appendChild(app)

@cellular in #n00bquestions
Re: %Fw6BZvHc2

i have also seen that the single follow doesn't work - in my case things started syncing after the new node got a follow back.

@cellular in #n00bquestions
Re: %K7meKzo1Q

@brln

Would my client sync and receive those three months worth of data?

i think so

Does it matter if me and the account on the network were following the same people/channels?

i don't think so

Do both computers have to have some particular ports open to be able to sync like that?

they need to be able to send and receive unicast tcp packets on port 8008 and broadcast udp packets on port 8008.

Is a pub required for any of this?

no

And then what would the process be if I wanted to have someone mail me a USB key with the most recent copy some of the data on the network, so I could update the network in the woods so the next poor traveler could sync their system?

i guess it would be to have a .ssb directory on the USB key and then run a second sbot locally using that directory and a different port:
sbot server --path /path/to/usb/ssb --port 8009
i just tried this with a directory in /tmp and it started syncing with my regular sbot immediately.
this approach would be like a travelling pub. see also scuttlebutt by snail mail. cc @joeyh

@cellular in #n00bquestions
Re: %6MWpvcHTb

i open the thread in a background browser tab. or copy-paste the message id into a notes text file. or sometimes go look through my feed if i remember interacting with a thread, to find a link to it

@dangerousbeans in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

<html safe="uhhh...">
<img src=x onerror='var Us = [ allOfYour(bases) ]'>
</html>

@dangerousbeans in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

It's kinda both a framework and an app (which still confuses me)

The minimal bits to make a scuttlebbutt social app have been extracted into https://github.com/ssbc/patchcore , which was the basis for Patchwork (this one, not the old React one)

Also with patchbay you can connect straight to (some) pubs from your browser (or phone) to get a web-only version of the scuttleverse but this is still pretty experimental

@dangerousbeans in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

it's designed to be very easy to make new message types or completely change the UI to whatever you want - even get bits of UI from other people you follow O:

I think of it more like a breadboard of prototyping, while patchwork is a smoother finished thing

@dangerousbeans in #n00bquestions
Re: %dBZzfd1Hm

Not in the main patchwork but there's a bunch of other viewers which you can use with just a web browser (and commandline server thing)

Check out https://github.com/ssbc/patchbay

@dangerousbeans in #n00bquestions
Re: %8ywnEbAca

Yis, is all viewers so far are markup-friendly so you can do like **this is bold**

This is an embedded cat picture:
![catpicture.gif](&yOAY96BlgLl51KdDZsvl3BD1J5oymxzNfmXTsRmY5X4=.sha256)

@Mikey in #n00bquestions
Re: %AG/crWQJg

no, see %q6qYcAl.... the protocol is designed for one key per user per device, since every feed is meant to only have a single author. we'd like to support multiple devices, but we haven't gotten around to it yet.

@Mikey in #n00bquestions
Re: %a99UCsZqg

@Aljoscha yes. if you like Go there is also: go-muxrpc and go-ssb.

@Mikey subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
Re: %6MWpvcHTb

I also have bookmarks or save/restore of tab's in mind with this proposal but wasn't able to put more time into it yet but t's not far off though.

I'm currently targeting patchbay but if we can push the storage functionality into patchcore, it shouldn't be hard to add it into pw, too.. how hard can it be to add some UI.. :P

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %UkEqPiAZi

hmm, bookmarks should be way more powerful in an immutable enviroment, on the web it's a bit like, oh I hope that cool thing is still there, oh they didn't renew the domain and there is an search aggregator parked there now );

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %UkEqPiAZi

@serapath a good place to look is to maybe to see how git-ssb features are combined into patchbay. The simplest is that patchbay/work wants to say, render a message, they call a message.sync.render or something (the code has changed since I last worked on this) and that tries each provider of that api, and gets the first thing that is handed back. that's when you ask for {gives: {<api>: "first"}} there are other times where you don't need the first thing that can handle something, but there could be a bunch of things. for example - metadata about a message, or actions on a message - these are provided by map that returns an array of results, and the caller uses them all.

to implement bookmarks, you might add actions and metadata to messages, and then have a bookmark feed/view too.

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %UkEqPiAZi

@serapath have a look at %depject github it's intended to make it easy to merge new features in.

I really wanna use bookmarks too! often there are some ideas i want to refer people back to. It would be especially neat if you could follow other people's bookmarks and generally curate thing. (you could have private bookmarks too, as a encrypted message to yourself)

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %a99UCsZqg
• scuttlebutt: a gossip protocol that synchronises messages via a vector clock of per-node timestamp or sequences. I got this name from an amazon paper "Efficient Reconciliation and Flow Control for Anti-Entropy Protocols". Also my original scuttlebutt module, which should now be called "insecure scuttlebutt"
• secure-scuttlebutt: this is the database part of ssb, but also used to refer to the protocol/database as a whole.
• scuttlebot: the repo that adds the networking behaviour to the database.
• sbot: short for scuttlebot, also the cli command name.

there have been suggestions to rename the secure-scuttlebutt repo to ssb-db which will probably happen on the next rewrite

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %7/4TK5bih

I think we should change the logo to a pot of beans

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %6MWpvcHTb

I think this is one which should be up to the user. I personally don't like the idea of public channel subscriptions. I think if you want a sense of value you can query the activity.

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %6MWpvcHTb

now for a short message type ... bkmk / bkmrk / tag / star (too google?)

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %6MWpvcHTb

Do you want bookmarks to be :

• in your log
• but private
• but public
• only stored locally

I think in your log and a private message to yourself would be best right ?

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %a99UCsZqg

Sure thing @Aljoscha

scuttlebutt = an early prototype for gossipable messages that Dominic made

secure scuttlebutt = ssb, the revision of scuttlebutt which included crypto signatures, and private messages

scuttlebot = a server which implements gossiping with other servers

current usage :

scuttlebutt - short for ssb (secure scuttlebutt) or the network in general. Sometimes also refered to as the scuttleverse. This is useful as distinct from patchwork, because there are many clients using the same gossiped database. e.g. I'm on patchbay, but we're all on scuttlebutt

sbot - short for scuttlebot, and the abbreviation that the scuttlebot uses in the commandline. Also easier to audibly/ visually distinguish from scuttlebutt. I think this one might change because of it's proximity and confuseability.

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %JTZ5fBAvF

oh yeah that is fun. Make sure you look at what it serves in chrome - it's much more performant than firefox for this

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %JTZ5fBAvF

that's a git-ssb link.

install git-ssb :

npm install git-ssb -g


then clone that git repo from ssb:

git clone %k3guyK9alTtcgEKOXiFTaudr1ip2y9LzJ6K7vJsB99Y=.sha256 REPO_NAME


then you've got a git repo on your computer. At a guess it's a node project, so

cd REPO_NAME
npm install
npm start

@mixxx in #n00bquestions
Re: %7/4TK5bih

@Dominic beans are not the answer.

I like the hermit crab because of the portable-home part of the story.

I spent some time trying to learn the shapes of hermit crabs enough to be able to draw a simplified abstraction.
I got impatient and ended up drawing this :

@sam if you are any good at logos I would love to see your take on a hermit crab.

@interfect subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@alex in #n00bquestions
Re: %SK9Pl40Cs

yes , the regular patchwork repo. I didn't try this time, but last time the only way to make it work after git pull and npm install to delete everything and clone again. I just wanted to make sure it's how i should update, so i will then just try it again next time :-)

@alex in #n00bquestions

How do I update patchwork when it tells me a new version has been released?
Last time i just tried git pull, then i deleted node_modules followed by npm install but somehow it didnt work. Maybe I just did something wrong in the process, but just would like to know what is the recommended approach? :-)

@alex in #n00bquestions
Re: %UkEqPiAZi

puh yeah right. i guess i need to do some more homework.
I will probably start with the user interface and make it work in a traditional browser first.

...then i'll slowly try to transition it and make it my project to explore how this would work in context of a p2p app. I found this one https://github.com/ssbc/ssb-handbook and hope it's a good place to start with

@alex in #n00bquestions
Re: %UkEqPiAZi

yes :-) i am a "power user" of bookmarks in general. I did not count, but i'm assuming i'm having tens of thousands of bookmarks filed into hundreds of folders. I'm having bookmark folders structured with special subfolders (like many contain something called NEWS or UPDATES) which are links where i can check for some updates about that topic ...but it's manual polling :/

Next, i'd love to set reminders for certain bookmarks and see all reminders on a timeline, because currently my messy brain often forgets stuff i deemed important. And I imagine if i share a bookmark folder with others to collaborate or subscribe to theirs, that could be really powerful and grow into some structure that helps with coordination between ppl :-)

I already saw depject and was wondering what i would use it for.
Is there an example of how to write something that others could add to their "patchwork" too? how does this process work?

@alex in #n00bquestions
Re: %UkEqPiAZi

I like patchwork so far.
Is it possible to extend it like i can add "browser extensions" for example in chrome?

I kind of like to always see the address of what I'm currently looking at or at least some kind of field where i can bookmark the active thing i'm looking at and give it a petname and then file it away in some bookmark folders :-)

I'd like to build some kind of bookmarkbar similar to what you have in browsers but with maybe some slightly more advanced functionality. I'm using the browser bookmarkbar heavily and I'm missing some features that i simulate manually and would love to finally automate.

I'm currently working on such a thing for regular browsers, but i already stumbled on cool posts here in patchwork that i would love to bookmark to remember them and maybe come back to them in the far future

@alex in #n00bquestions
Re: %UkEqPiAZi

yes, seems to work.

same link markdown test

@alex in #n00bquestions

Can I bookmark posts or somehow get a direct reference to them?

@alex subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Matt in #n00bquestions
Re: %BZB8M1Zi4

Absolutely correct!

@scott subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@Mikey in #n00bquestions
Re: %4RujKEInj

hey @Helena,

you can see all channels (with the ones you subscribe to at the top) by going to the search box and entering '#'.

@johnny in #n00bquestions
Re: %7/4TK5bih

yes, it's a hermit crab

@Bob voted this
@kek 🐸 in #n00bquestions
Re: %6MWpvcHTb

What I find myself doing is digging/liking threads I want to follow. Feels more like a workaround than a solution though.

@river_crab in #n00bquestions
Re: %JTZ5fBAvF

ssb-graphviz in case you want to know

@brookemitchell subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@kek 🐸 in #n00bquestions
Re: %GrcF0kxwx

After quite a journey through the archives I found this thread.

@Travis in #n00bquestions

Is there [perhaps even the beginnings of] an android Patchwork client?

@dvn subscribed to channel #n00bquestions
@mawo in #n00bquestions
Re: %/A6iNdjlB

Since a while we have a public server: eu2.woll-e.net.
The server is running in a loop:
while true; do
sbot server --host eu2.woll-e.net

Re: %/A6iNdjlB

they do crash sometimes,

you could put a sleep in there to protect against ddos by crashing.

I hacked together runSbot.sh which is also supposed to post error logs after crashing but I need to fix findTraceStart().

@dominic in #n00bquestions
Re: %/A6iNdjlB

you should run your pub in a loop,

while true; do sbot server; done
they do crash sometimes, but a p2p network has to be designed to withstand crashes and network outages anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

@flexliv in #n00bquestions
Re: %/A6iNdjlB

@xstt I think @mawo already has a pub. If it is still up.

@xstt_old1 in #n00bquestions
Re: %/A6iNdjlB

@mawo can we setup a pub on the Bitnation GitHub?

@xstt_old1 in #n00bquestions
Re: %/A6iNdjlB

So that I can invite others to join...

@xstt_old1 in #n00bquestions

How do I setup a public pub?

@dangerousbeans in #n00bquestions
Re: %/A6iNdjlB

@xstt This is a guide to setting up a pub: https://ssbc.github.io/docs/scuttlebot/howto-setup-a-pub.html